Episode Notes for the Interview with Liel Bridgford

I am a Psychologist, writer, educator, and podcaster based in Naarm and who uses she/they pronouns. I am a proud disabled, immigrant, gender fluid femme, and my work is centered on inclusive, accessible and holistic support and education. I have been recognised as an ABC TOP 5 Arts resident, served as the 2022 Editor of Writing Place Magazine, and was a 2023 Melbourne Access and Inclusion Award finalist. I have facilitated presentations and workshops across Australia and internationally, and was published and featured widely.
In the past year, I founded Kultivate to advance wellbeing, equity, inclusion, and disability justice. Kultivate provides a space where disabled individuals can access mental health support and education delivered by professionals with lived experiences. By educating professionals, Kultivate improves the lives of disabled people globally. Kultivate’s mission is rooted in equity, community, mindfulness, and empowerment. My vision through Kultivate is to create an equitable and inclusive society where all disabled and multiply marginalised people thrive.
In the little free time I get, I enjoy singing along to the Frozen soundtrack with my kids and try to keep up with social media at @LielKBridgford.

Find the podcast here: https://www.kultivate.au/podcast or any major podcast platforms.

To connect with me, find me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lielkbridgford/

Find my writing, interviews and more here: https://linktr.ee/lielkbridgford

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Episode Notes

Barry De Geest is a dedicated advocate and activist within the New Zealand disability community. He has worked throughout his life to further the aims of disabled citizens to achieve self-determination, choice and control. Barry is an active supporter of the Enabling Good Lives Approach.
Barry’s commitment to the sector is evident through his numerous initiatives, particularly through his establishment of the Renaissance Group, which aims to promote accessibility and inclusivity. His insights and dedication have not only raised awareness of the barriers faced by disabled New Zealanders in areas such as housing and employment, but has also assisted to foster a more inclusive society where all people can thrive.
Barry’s work extends beyond organisational involvement. He has been a vocal advocate in public forums, using his platform to educate and motivate others. His passion and persistence have garnered respect from many in the disability sector, making him a pivotal figure in the New Zealand disability rights movement. His efforts serve as a testament to the power of advocacy, and the importance of disabled leadership.

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Disability Responsiveness New Zealand offers personalised mentoring and workshops, view the content of these at https://drnz.co.nz/about-our-workshops-and-programmes/

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While I was suspicious of payWave to begin with, since when these were introduced one had no choice but to have the chips included on payment cards, I now recognise that this is the best method for blind and vision impaired people to pay for purchases. This is because it is the only way we can preserve our independence and critically, our privacy, since we have no way of knowing if someone is looking over our shoulders while we enter our pins.

Tactile card readers with physical buttons are increasingly being replaced with flat screen readers. This means blind and vision impaired people have no way of working out where specific numbers are on the screen. Since the banks and others including police continually remind us not to give our pin number out to others, even trusted friends, what choice will we have if we can’t use the card reader independently or have to pay a percentage of the purchase price in ridiculous and greedy additional charges.

Additionally, the trend of including a question on card readers about including a tip is wrong. Again, if blind or vision impaired people wish not to pay this, they will have to tell the café or restaurant owner they do not wish to tip, which may be difficult for the less assertive among us, particularly if we then have to ask for their help to use the inaccessible card reader.

While I and others are prepared to use cash to avoid this greedy, rapacious price gouging, many businesses will not accept cash, even though this remains legal tender. Furthermore, government is increasingly pushing to have cash removed as a payment option in-store. Whereas, if we truly live in a democracy, we should have the choice about what payment method we use ourselves.

Put simply I do not believe any charges should be added for the use of PayWave, neither do I believe we should be allowing tipping to sneak into our commercial sector. All this leads to is people being underpaid and expected to make up their salary with tips.

Throughout my five years PhD research on the topic of barriers and enablers to employment for disabled people within the disability sector, I have been constantly struck by the paucity of sector leaders world-wide. This issue continues to be front of mind for me, and is a major reason for my starting the Disability Disrupters podcast, published on the 1st of each month. The recent discussion about vision Australia’s failure to run an open recruitment process for its new Chief Executive Officer (CEO) reminds me that, we’re not there yet.

Here’s the text of an open letter to Vision Australia Directors, from Blind Citizens Australia:

“26 August 2024

To Vision Australia directors,

We, the undersigned blind and vision-impaired individuals and our supporters, express our dismay regarding the decision to appoint a new Chief Executive Officer (CEO) through an internal Expression of Interest (EOI) process. As Australia’s largest provider of blindness services, Vision Australia has a responsibility to ensure its leadership reflects the lived experience of our community. We urge the Board to reconsider this approach and commit to an external search, prioritizing the appointment of the organization’s first blind CEO.

The final report of Australia’s Disability Royal Commission underscores the need for inclusive and representative leadership in organizations serving people with disability. It states, “Leadership should reflect the diversity of the community it serves, including the lived experiences of people with disabilities.” The report emphasizes that effective advocacy and leadership require that people with disabilities lead, ensuring their voices shape policy and service delivery.

While we acknowledge the talent within Vision Australia and its commitment to employing blind and vision-impaired staff, most work in client-facing and middle management roles, lacking the executive experience required for the CEO position. By opting for an internal EOI process, Vision Australia risks missing the opportunity to appoint an experienced, progressive leader with fresh perspectives capable of advancing the organization.

A blind CEO would not only bring invaluable lived experience but also serve as a powerful symbol of empowerment for the community. Such a leader would be uniquely positioned to address client needs, implement necessary changes, and drive the organization’s mission forward with genuine insight and authority.

Unemployment remains a significant barrier for blind and vision-impaired individuals. A 2019 World Blind Union survey found only 24% of blind Australians were in full-time employment, lagging behind countries like New Zealand and Canada. Additionally, pathways to executive leadership for blind and vision-impaired talent are limited. Appointing a blind CEO would demonstrate Vision Australia’s commitment to providing an open, inclusive process and addressing these disparities.

We appreciate the board’s intent to maintain momentum and ensure continuity. However, an external search is essential for transparency and inclusivity, especially given it has been 11.5 years since the role was last advertised. An internal EOI process may not fully capture the diverse perspectives required for effective leadership. The Disability Royal Commission called for “transparent and merit-based processes that value the perspectives of people with disabilities,” aligning with an external recruitment approach.

We respectfully urge the Vision Australia Board to revoke its decision for an internal EOI process and undertake an external search, committing to appoint a blind or vision-impaired leader as CEO. This will demonstrate the Board’s dedication to promoting the employment of blind people and meeting current expectations for disability leadership.

We hope our concerns will be considered, and we look forward to a process that reflects the principle of “nothing about us without us” and the high standards Vision Australia strives to uphold.”

I strongly urge disabled people, and our allies, to sign this petition started by Graeme Innes, supporting this open Letter:

https://www.change.org/p/open-letter-to-the-directors-of-vision-australia-urging-open-ceo-recruitment-process?signed=true

Amos Miller, the Founder and CEO of Glidance, is a trailblazer in the field of assistive technology. After losing his sight in his 20s due to a genetic eye condition, Amos embarked on a mission to revolutionize mobility for the blind and vision impaired. With over 25 years of experience, most notably at Microsoft Research, Amos has been at the forefront of developing ground-breaking assistive products using augmented reality and robotics. He is the founder of Microsoft Soundscape, an innovative audio augmented reality navigation app that has empowered countless individuals with sight loss. Amos’s dedication to accessibility and innovation drives Glidance’s mission to provide safe, independent navigation solutions, paving the way for a more inclusive future.

Amos says: “We are building Glide out in the open with the community and encourage anyone who is interested to engage with us to register on our website http://glidance.io. We hold regular virtual demos for new gliders where you can meet the team, learn about the product and our plans, and get your questions answered live by our team. You can write to us with your questions and thoughts, and in addition we hold a monthly zoom call on the last Wednesday of every month where we have more advanced in-depth conversations.”

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Disability issues have for many years been marginalised within the mainstream media, and the majority of nondisabled people control a narrative which is often wildly inaccurate. The media strongly influences public perception, reinforcing unhelpful stereotypes, negatively impacting the lives of disabled New Zealanders, including their access to employment opportunities. Representations about disabled people within both the mainstream and social media tend to be unimaginative, for example presenting all blind people as possessing superhuman hearing, objectifying disabled people as inspirational heroes for living ordinary lives, or completely excluding the lived realities of disability.

Journalists wield tremendous power and influence. Representatives from all forms of media are in a privileged position in the symbolic struggle to ensure information is seen, heard, and believed. The exclusion of disabled people from articles and stories about unemployment, together with the portrayal of us as interesting only when our stories inspire others, amounts to symbolic violence, which is difficult to detect and even invisible to its victims.

On Monday 6 May 2024, RNZ National’s Nine to Noon programme featured an item entitled “Youth Baring the brunt of rising unemployment”. The item discussed recently released stats on youth not in employment, education or training (NEET), which stands at 12.4%. It seems quite extraordinary that disabled people were once again completely left out of the discussion.

The silencing of the life experiences, hopes, and dreams of disabled people in the broadcast media was a catalyst for my recently completed PhD thesis entitled, Disability Work Matters: Employment Opportunities for Disabled People in the New Zealand Disability Sector. On Sunday 4 March 2018, RNZ National had aired an Insight documentary subtitled ‘No Job, No Training, No Hope?’ The website introduction to the documentary noted:

The economy is going gangbusters and we’re in the middle of a construction boom, yet 80,000 young New Zealanders are not in work or training while immigrants are brought in to work as builders and bricklayers. How does a young person end up unemployed and uneducated, and are there processes in place to help those people get back on the ladder?

While the programme advised that the unemployment rate in New Zealand stood at 4.5% at that time, those not in employment, education or training (NEET) made up 11.5%, as at February 2017. Māori and Pacific peoples, aggregated, represented 40% of NEETs, and 15% or 12,000 people were described as young women caregivers. It was reported that each NEET was costing the country just over $21,000 annually in benefits and lost productivity. This equated to $1.5 billion each year.

Since the previous census had reported that almost 70% of working-age disabled people were not in employment or undertaking education or training, it might have been expected that disabled youth would have featured strongly in this programme. However, this was not the case. The absence of information about disabled youth was particularly noticeable in light of benefit payments and lost tax revenue that accounted for $1.1 billion in 2016, as reported in a cost benefit analysis published by Workbridge that same year. However, the only mention of disabled people at all was in the passive role of those being cared for by young women “looking after an elderly or disabled relative”.

The media holds the power to highlight and support the interests of various community groups in New Zealand. When the disability-related programme One in Five was dropped by RNZ National some years ago, we were assured that disability issues would be included as part of mainstream news and current affairs coverage. This has not happened. Our lives and aspirations are either completely ignored by RNZ and other media outlets, or else they use the power associated with their status to misrepresent people who may hold little or no power themselves. It is way past time that more positive attention is given by the media to the one in four New Zealand citizens who experience disability, particularly with respect to our need for employment. Rather than constantly perpetuating stigmatisation through stereotypical portrayals, the media could instead use its privileged position and influence to educate, represent, advocate, and promote responsiveness towards disabled people’s access to all aspects of life, including employment.

DRNZ will shortly launch Disability Disrupters, a podcast featuring interviews with disabled people who disrupt society’s perception of us through living full and productive lives, and undertaking unexpected activities and careers. We will also feature e-mails from disabled people on the show. So if you think you’d like to contribute your experiences, write to disrupters@drnz.co.nz and don’t forget to visit http://www.drnz.co.nz to find out what we offer.

Disability Responsiveness New Zealand Ltd,nothing in our name, without our direction!

Pam MacNeill, Managing Director

The appointment yesterday of a nondisabled Chief Executive to Blind and Low vision New Zealand, echo’s common discourses and beliefs within society, often fuelled by both the traditional and social media, which label disabled people as unworthy and necessarily incompetent.

Unfortunately it is not surprising that a blind, or otherwise disabled person didn’t get the Chief Executive position. This decision follows a sadly predictable pattern. Seeking to keep up with the times, most disability-related charities today have changed their names in an effort to counter charges of paternalism. For example, the predecessor to BLVNZ was the RNZ Foundation ‘of’ the Blind, whereas its predecessor was the RNZ Foundation ‘for’ the Blind. Nevertheless, what appears not to have changed is the governance and control of such institutions.

An effective merry-go-round exists at the senior levels within the disability sector here and in other western countries, which sees senior executives leave one charity and remarkably join another, at increasingly senior levels. Someone with no lived experience of disability, working at a senior level in the disability sector, may have accumulated the social networks which simplifies their entry to a sector which exists to serve disabled people. This eventually leads to their gaining sufficient power to control that sector. Thus, circumstances surrounding such appointments are all about power and control, and ultimately how these are achieved in the name of disabled people, but not by people who actually live disabled lives; the people in whose name the sector exists.

Jonathan Mosen is quite correct when he notes that there are a number of highly qualified people in New Zealand, who not only possess the academic and business experience required to fill roles such as that of BLVNZ Chief Executive and other senior roles in other areas of the disability sector, but critically possess the key cultural capital conferred by their lived experience of disability. Disabled New Zealanders are increasingly seeking our rightful place in charge of our own sector, and just like members of other marginalised groups, we will keep demanding that we gain power and control over our own sector.

Pam MacNeill

Managing Director

Disability Responsiveness New Zealand Ltd

M Phil, Dip Rehab, Dip Soc Wk, CQSW, Dip Bus, PhD student

Yesterday, the Board of BLVNZ announced the appointment of a new CE. Heres what disability activist and advocate Jonathan Mosen had to say about this:

Today, the Royal new Zealand Foundation of the Blinds Board has announced the next Chief Executive of Blind Low Vision NZ, who I congratulate and wish every success in the role. However, as someone with a personal and professional interest in the employment of disabled people, I am deeply disappointed that given all the blind, low vision and DeafBlind people with leadership experience both at home and abroad, yet another disability service provider has not seen fit to walk its own talk and appoint one of us.

For the remainder of this post, my references to blind people also encompass those who are low vision and DeafBlind.

When you are fortunate to reach a stage in your career where you occupy senior roles as I have, there is a tendency to play the game and not rock the boat. Not doing so leaves you at risk of gaining a reputation for being a troublemaker. But some issues are too important. After careful reflection, I realise that I would far rather be thought of by some as a troublemaker than have to live with myself as someone who has sold out and forgotten where they have come from. Until the day I die, I will still be a blind person and will still be affected by the quality of blindness services in New Zealand. I am a member of the incorporated society and have a right to express a view about decisions that affect me.

When the previous Government appointed a nondisabled person to set up our Ministry, I was one of the founders of Disability Leadership Now, which spoke out against the decision and I believe ensured that a disabled person would be appointed to the permanent role. There is a time to stay silent, and a time to speak out. For me, it is time for the latter.

I have been a champion all my life of the fundamental human right of disabled people to determine our own destiny. Any progress we have made has been hard-fought-for. That is why I was one of several people who spent many years consulting and drafting to come up with the current RNZFB governance model with self-determination at its heart, which was ground-breaking for its time.

Determining our own destiny also means directing the services we receive, and what those services are. Sadly, the principles of the RNZFBs Constitution have not been allowed to cascade to its operational arm. Blind people are now less involved in the organisations operation than at any time in its history. When I was a senior manager there in the 1990s, there were several capable blind leaders at the senior management table, most of whom were global leaders. Now, there is a grand total of 0.

Is that because there are suddenly no blind people capable of serving at senior leadership level, or might the organisation be an unattractive place for many such people to work?

Several blind people have felt compelled to leave the organisation for the good of their mental health and as a matter of integrity. The Board itself have acknowledge the hurt many blind people have experienced.

Particularly for those of us of working age, people who are aware of the services available to blind people in countries with which we like to compare ourselves know that there has been a serious erosion of quality here. Many skilled professionals have left feeling despondent. There is more of an occupational therapy focus in service delivery than a blindness focus. They are different disciplines. Assistive technology provision is under-resourced. In my opinion, one key reason for this is that no one around that Executive Leadership Table lives life as a blind person and does not completely understand what life is like for us. That is not to say they arent making a valuable contribution, but the voice of lived experience it essential around that table.

We hear a lot about the paternalism of the old Blind Institute and the control they had over the lives of blind people. Blind people had to organise and agitate in order to change that behaviour. But what is interesting is that only two blind people have led the organisation at an operational level, and both of them were appointed in the first half-century of the organisations existence.

The last blind person to hold the role then called Director was appointed in 1923. One would hope that a modern, progressive disability organisation that truly lived its constitutional values would be keen to break that 100 year drought.

While blindness cannot be the only qualification taken into account when considering who to appoint to the Blind Low Vision NZ CEO role, in my opinion it should be a highly sought attribute. Of course senior leadership experience is essential, but being a member of the blind community is significant because a CEOs role is fundamentally about overseeing the organisations culture, values, strategic focus and viability. External relationships are also a key responsibility of the CEO, so turning up as a blind person makes a bold statement. After all, if Blind Low Vision NZ will not appoint a capable blind person to their most senior role, why should anyone else?

It is vital to employ subject matter experts in finance, fundraising and other disciplines. The RNZFB has a complex asset base and it must be safeguarded for future generations. But a blind person should be directing those professionals, consistent with the RNZFBs constitutional objects which include principles of self-determination.

A blind person at the helm wouldnt be able to switch off blindness at the end of their work day, and they would know that they must live with the consequences of the decisions they make long after their term as CEO is over. I believe that there is a blind culture. It is forged out of common experiences of past institutionalisation for some. In the present it is forged from getting about in the world without sight, numerous accessibility barriers, frequently being underestimated and infantilised, knowing we have so much to give, but for various reasons being denied the opportunity to give it. A blind CEO would simply get all that.

It is time to start asking tough questions not just of the Board of this organisation, but of many others and of Government. Why is the disability sector in New Zealand different from most other minorities and those experiencing disadvantage. Most Mori service providers are, rightly, run by Mori. I have seen CEO roles for entities providing services to the LGBTQ community where being a member of that community was highly desirable. Most leaders of organisations providing services specifically to women are run by women. Yet we constantly see disabled people being passed over for leadership roles in our own sector, with few to no reprisals for the organisations concerned.

I hope that this issue is something the new Minister for Disability Issues will consider. Nothing talks in these increasingly corporate organisations like the bottom line. So when it is procuring services, I urge the Government to take into account which organisations are disability-led. Some points should be awarded for leadership at the governance level, more should be awarded for leadership at the operational level. The Government has the potential to help influence disability leadership through the many dollars it allocates.

Those of us who are members of the society should certainly keep this decision in mind when voting for directors. We put them there, they are accountable to us. This is the right we fought for all those years ago.

Meanwhile, the successful applicant had every right to apply for the role. Let us support her and play a constructive part in her education.

Jonathan Mosen MNZM

Check out Jonathans podcast, Living Blindfully, all about living your best life with blindness and low vision

https://LivingBlindfully.com

We are told the government supports the principles of Enabling Good Lives. But what does that mean in practice? This question was discussed during an online protest rally of disabled New Zealanders on Sunday 13 February. A spokesperson for the group, Disabled Leadership Now: Pam MacNeill, told the gathering that “while the government may say it supports the Kaupapa of Enabling Good Lives, this is just lip-service when it comes to leadership and staffing in the new ministry for disabled people. What happened to the principles of a person centred approach to building relationships with us, backing our right to self-determination to achieve ordinary life outcomes, and enhancing our mana by placing us in the mainstream of Public Service work about disablement? In appointing a nondisabled person to the role of Establishment Director for the ministry, the opportunity has been lost to enable disabled people to define our own agenda, and begin early to ensure easy access to our ministry by disabled Kiwis.”

Mrs MacNeill further called for vigilance on the part of those present lest the Public Service Commission appoint a substitute disabled person to the role of Chief Executive once the establishment phase of the ministry is completed in July this year. “We can not accept family as substitutes for disabled people staffing the ministry. Neither will we be mollified by appointments of people who may claim disabled status but with no personal lived experience of disability” Pam MacNeill said today.

By now you will all be well aware of the Disabled Leadership Now campaign based around the appalling decision made by MSD, to appoint a nondisabled person to the role of Establishment Director for the new Ministry for Disabled People, and the poor timing of the announcement by government.

It is important that existing disability advocacy groups understand that the kopapa of the campaign is complementary to wider advocacy underway in Aotearoa New Zealand. Disabled Leadership Now is a group of senior disability activists having our say on a matter which is critical to the future leadership and management of the disability sector by the people it exists to support. We appreciate that it is potentially difficult for contracted organisations in the disability sector to express similar views they may hold publically. So we are speaking out to make it clear to government that it is not okay to paternalistically decide that disabled people are not capable of choosing what we want, determining our own path, and controlling our own future. After all, isn’t that what Enabling Good Lives is all about?

We would love to see as many disabled people as possible joining us at 3.00pm on 13 February, to discuss the situation we now find ourselves in as disabled people seeking to gain choice and control of everything about us.